this is the problem from what i have found... so far. many stand alone GPS units offer either menus that are English driven with Chinese maps that are full Chinese, not pinying. or are full Chinese GPS units... menus and maps. If one can;t read Chinese then these are of little to no use.
Any pinying maps are not as detailed as the full Chinese equivalent. Also no unit has the ability to switch from say a Pinying map, to a Chinese map without closing one map and opening the other.
There are a multitude of GPS units with Chinese maps, which cover nearly every road (based on my experience), but the English maps lack the same level of detail.

as for a PPC or PDA based GPS (as i have) there are really two main choices... if like me one uses windows mobile 5 (WM5) then its either MapAsia's MapKing R10, or R12 or 2007. they have specialised in producing maps of Aisa, but some maps haven't been updated since 2006. the maps of the main cities like shanghai and beijing etc are good, as is the pearly river delta map, though the map of China is a little lacking in detail from my experience.
The other alternative for a PPC or PDA might be Route66, which i have a copy of, but haven't installed yet. Route 66 has a China map which is about 120mb... so perhaps it has much more detail than MapKings China mainland map which is substantially smaller file size.
I'll load it up and use it and post back here my comparison...

i have been using my HTC3300 which is fully optioned with every conceivable electronic device and function packed into a small PPC phone weighing in at 130g which makes it a very lite phone, considering its features. i bought it through toabao.com (need to be able to read Chinese), and had the dealer install WM5 English. amongst the features it has a built in GPS chip, which came bundled with TomTom which don't have any maps of China. i sought out some software vendor with China maps and software with English that supported PPC/PDA etc, and came across MapAsia's MapKing, and also Route66 who have just released mapping for China. i've got myself a copy of both but have yet to try it. another post another time.

i have continued on with MapKing using a range of English maps (see MapAsia.net) with particular use of the China Map (named China Cities). i'm using the English version of Mapking, with English maps... and the major stumbling block has been a lack of detail of the China cities map specifically. it only has major national highways and expressways on this particualr map. there are many other maps available in English, eg. Shanghai, Shenzhen, Pearl River Delta etc. the other feature that i have found lacking is the ability to keep a log of tracks taken, which is fairly important to me, as every week i cover about 1000km driving or riding my motorbike, simply exploring the countryside. in zhejiang province there are large number of mountain ranges that are easily accessible to me, and i have explored many of them, so many, that at times i am confused by different routes, since its been hard to keep track of all the places i have been to.

MapKing does have the ability to add POI (points of interest) which is at least useful in trying to keep abreast of my travels thus far, but i really wanted a map with more detail. while the China Cities map is good, it has all the major cities, as well as bigger towns marked on the map, and small towns represented as dots on the map, with all cities etc having their names in pinying, the drawback has been when i'm really out in the countryside or mountains and the signs are only in Chinese characters. i haven't mastered that many characters as yet, so there are times when i can't be sure of a sign or which direction to take... haha, great for exploring though. i have found some hidden gems in that way.

after going back to MapAsia, and checking to see if there were any new updates or new maps i hadn't already downloaded, i started experimenting with some of the other english maps of china, and while i was viewing the Pearl River Delta map, i noted the amount of detail and content there was in the map. if only there was a map with as much content and detail for the region i am, or so i thought...

as a side note, i have loads of English to Chinese programmes on the PPC, but have been looking at a way to have Chinese integrated into the English version of WM5, so that i would be able to read Chinese in sms, documents etc, rather than having squares and other obscure characters. i'd tried CE-star but had to get the latest version, which hasn't been......

i went back to MapAsia, and this time i explored more of the site... i was curious to see what maps there were in Chinese, which meant navigating to several different MapAsia sites and doing all i could to get into the right download area. after a simple registration process i was in, and i found a much larger number of maps for the Chinese version of MapKing. i downloaded all of them... and then i installed one Chinese version map onto the PPC, opened up MapKing, selected the Chinese map and the map started without any problems. A chinese map with Chinese characters displayed on the MapKing2007 English version. I had full access to English driven menus, all my POI's were displayed appropriately on the right map, even better there is a Yantze Delta region map that cover Zhejiang in great detail... and as it turns out many of the place names can be toggled over with the stylus and there is a little popup window which displays the names of places in Chinese and pinying... whoa! yahoooo...

so there you have it... now to play some more...

Wow, great info!  You'll have to show me your GPS unit sometime.  I used to have a Garmin Streetpilot III (top-of-the-line consumer unit when I bought it in 2000) and I thought it was great.  I had to give it up because I no longer drive a car, and I know the city of Ningbo backwards and forwards. But I'm still interested, even if I can't use GPS.

Administrator, www.NingboGuide.com.

Its been like a month or maybe longer using the YRD Map with my Mapking2007 on my HTC P3300 PPC running WM5 so thought its time for an update. Using mapking has been great so far though there have been little niggles here and there, its certainly much better than relying on paper based maps. I've used mapking many times just on free GPS mode as well as at times on routing mode. The latter has been ok, with the occassional niggle thrown in for good measure. the YRD map has some updating needed, as some of the major highways have not been mapped, which can present the user with a few little problems, when trying to get from point A to point B. since certain roads or highways may not be on the map this is a draw back when trying to plot a route, which have several options available that influence the route choices eg. shortest route, "motorways" avoided, "motorways" preferred etc. on the whole i have found the mapping to be fairly accurate, though there have been several instances whereby the actual map and the real road are not in alignment, causing a loss of current position on the mapped road or cause re-routing while navigating. or as i outlined above, that, certain highways or roads simply didn't exist on the maps. seems as though mapasia (makers of mapking) could do with better updating frequencies.i had some fun relying on the mapking YRD map in; yinzhou area of ningbo, around shoaxing, also near wuxi (jiangsu), and trying to navigate between ningbo-tonglu-jiande then return via jiande-tonglu-heshan-shengzhou-ningbo. amongst other places and towns, which now need updating. pity mapking doesn't support tracking, to be able to update roads on the fly like some other navigation packages can.however, now that i'm more familiar with the package and "how" it navigates its less of an issue though i still need to keep aware, and keep an eye on the navigation in real time. -as all GPS vendors pontificate in the fine print, the software and mapping are indicative only. when one can also review a list of the route via the software (limited by my ability to read chinese names etc), which would be useful to fine tune roads and routes, or view a simulation of the route via 2D or 3D. it also sports an option called fuzzy learning, but i haven;t noticed the significance of this. have tried to use it in the yingzhou area of ningbo, and it doesn't seem to have made any detectable difference.my main grumbles are;there doesn't seem to be a method for picking way points between location start and destination, forcing the mapping and routing of a preferred route. when i have tried this the routing takes some real out of the way route choices, such as when i decided i wanted to return from the jiande/tonglu to ningbo via the mountain roads that cross west-east. when i tried to force the software to select routing based on a combination of destinations (way points) the routing seemed less than favorable, forcing me to choose a closer destination and do the routing in stages. not the most use friendly or operations.another gripe is that there is no YRD english map yet, which would make navigation a little easier for a non chinese reader like myself. moreover the maps don't appear to be updated as often as need to happen in a fast changing place like china. another note; i have played with the identifying POI's within the China cities map, adding it as a POI, closing the map then opening the YRD map, this kind of workaround helps deal with my limited chinese language ability. i have obtained route66 with a china map (a very large file size 110mb for the map, mapking maps are a fraction at around 2-4mb per map). unfortunately i have not been able to get route66 to operate past the map selection screen (route66 tends to hang then close after the map slection) despite repeated installs, removing other programs etc.so for the time being i'm sticking with mapking2007 despite its shortcomings... mainly concerning the lack of map updates.

Route66 now have a China map thats like about 320mb. still haven't been able to get route 66 to function or load the map. can get to map selection screen, choose map, then the "time egg" pops up, but thats it... doesn't get past this screen. : looks like i will have to stick with mapking for now. using a combination of mapking in English with a selection of the maps in Chinese and English. Mapking do have a map that covers the Yangtze River Delta only in Chinese thats actually quiet good. have been using it extensively in Zhejiang, covers cities quite well, like Ningbo, Beilun, Hangzhou,  Wuxi, Najing, Changzhou amongst others. Pity that the map doesn't have pinying only . The Mapking English maps have all the places names and street names in Pinying, but while there is a Pearl River Delta map in both CHT, CHS and English there is not English map for the Yangtze River Delta that encompasses Zhejiang province :) remember if you are using a PPC/PDA or Palm with English/???? OS that doesn't read Chinese characters then you need to have to install chinese fonts.

i have some substantial posts previously on this topic... suggest a search if you're interested...here's my take... on phone/PPC/PDA's with inbuilt GPS...i use a HTC-P3300 and ditched the preloaded TomTom... who don't have mapping of China. i use MapKing2007 (MK) English version with many different maps of China some with pinying and some with Chinese characters.Also have and use Route66 (R66) with a map of China.my take on comparison...MK maps are much smaller file sizes compared with the R66 map of China which is 320mb currently (thats just the map size) and therefore they tend to lack a little detail, like POI categories, detailed roading such as showing actual lanes in each direction. Also MK lacks a little in identifying overpasses etc, which can be a pain when taking a route that passes under or over another road, and MK tries to route in a way that physically doesn't exist, such as when an expressway overpass cuts over a road and there's no physical way to get onto the overpass road at that location, but MK routes as though there is. R66 doesn't have this problem that i found at this point.MK though has a much more intuitive interface IMO. when MK is started it doesn't connect automatically to GPS, so one can use the map in a more functional useful way, such as scrolling from one point to another, as opposed to R66 which tries to connect to GPS automatically on activation. There is a way to scroll the China map but its far too cumbersome since it involves far too many steps to do it. not much help when you are on the fly, trying to reroute or plan a route by seeing alternatives at the same time.  MK is easily bought back to the menu when the its in GPS mode, and the menu options are intuitive and logical, easily navigated. e.g. if i find a place i want add as a POI, when i'm in MK GPS mode i touch the touchscreen with my finger (don't need to use the stylus), the menu comes up while the GPS is still activated in the background, i then hit the button for add POI called "MOB", then i hit the "go back" button and i'm  back to the map in GPS mode. try to do this in 3 easy steps in R66... sorry no can do, it takes far more steps, requiring more concentration resulting in stopping the car or motorbike...one major POI category missing in R66 compared with MK is speed cameras. -a major necessity IMO. i have downloaded the R66 safety camera update and installed it, but nothing has changed in the categories section, so even if i want to manually add a speed camera location which is easily done in MK, which can then be edited so that one gets a verbal warning in MK, this doesn't seem to be the case with R66 thus far in China.R66 big map of the whole of China is far too memory intensive, and if one chooses a long distance route (as i often drive or ride) then there are some memory problems being able to choose the routing type, such as avoiding expressways, toll roads etc. therefore in my situation, i need to downscale my route into smaller parts to use the various routing functions.. that just sucks in comparison to the ease of use department.MK do have an overall map of China named China cities 2003 which just gives the major roading network from and between cities, but not detailed maps of the cities themselves, alternatively MK have broken China into many different parts, like major cities having their own maps, or area maps like pearl river delta or yangtze river delta etc. the downside is that the maps are now a little stale, not having been updated in most cases since 2006, which you know in China is a big deal since everything is changing so rapidly. also i have found some glaring omissions for some routes, with some portions of national highways or expressways non existent on the maps, or having major alignment issues. R66 does have a few areas where this also is an issue, but less frequently.for me...i prefer the ease of use of MK, its less resource hungry and therefore this shows in its responsiveness and usability, its easy and more logical and is more operator friendly when wanting to use on the fly such as interacting with the menu, or wanting to scroll a map, but the maps have alignment issues and need major updating.R66 has the detail lacking in MK, it looks a little more polished with a slightly nicer sleeker interface, but the map is way too big (they should make it more regionally based like the MK approach). R66 doesn't seem to support the inclusion of speed cameras in the POI category, but has way more POI categories than MK. sorry but i prefer the speed camera POI ability than some of the others...and in China is speed camera overkilli also think that for a device the HTC TyTN-II would rank up there for an all inclusive device that should be able to handle the requirements of R66...thats my kuais worth

Thanks for all the info!  People occasionally search for GPS information here, and I'm glad it'll show up in the search.  If more people arrive in Ningbo who drive cars, we could do a magazine article on it.

Administrator, www.NingboGuide.com.

An update for those amongst us interested in GPS etc.

I have been using Garmin on PPC, GarminXT (english version), with a variety of different maps, one is map of China in Pinying while the other is map of China in Chinese. The Garmin maps are quite detailed, and cover many of the "hidden places" I often travel.

The interface of GarminXT is nice, and falls somewhere between Mapkings intuitive ease of use, especially when in navigating mode and Route66's complexity. The best part of GarminXT when using the Pinying map is being able to search in pinying and not having to rely on Chinese characters. This is similar to how Mapking functions.

Garmin also has a tracking function and when combined with an additional piece of software that Garmin supports called Mapsource, it is possible to make overlays of new roads etc on the existing map, something that none of the other GPS software vendors support that I have tried thus far. In fairness Mapking's makers "MapAsia" are happy to update their respective maps when users contact them with updates on new roads/routes or deviations etc.

Garmin is also supported by a large web community etc. So it is possible to share some mapping and POI information.

That being said...

There are some issues with Garmin in China. Being that the PRC CCP (government) expressly bans mapping perse' GPS's fall into a grey area, and Garmin have had to team up with a local company "Unistrong" who handle the mapping of China. This means that the China map cannot be downloaded or bought on any of the Garmins websites, as is the usual practice. In other words if I want to buy a new Garmin map for my device whether it be a PNA or PPC, then I could simply go online and buy the map from the respective Garmin website or distributor.

Not so for China.

At time of writing, China maps for Garmin can only bought preloaded with a Garmin device (PPC/PNA). Obtaining a map of China and installing it on a device not bought from Unistrong China will lead to a mapping positional error when using the map/device in navigation mode. Even if one has a genuine Garmin PNA or genuine copy of GarminXT etc from overseas, it/they will not support the use of the China map at this stage. Also worth noting is that as at the time I post this, Unistrong will not sell the China map seperately - it will only be sold with a device and only inside China. So for anyone who may have bought a Garmin PNA from aborad and they hope to use that with the China map inside China, then while it is possible it will not give an accurate location when in navigational mode. Essentially meaning that one would have to buy a second Garmin device just for China. :!:

Over the past weekend, while out traveling in the far reaches of Zhejiang province, a friend was surprised at the level of detail of the Garmin map, and that the map was in Pinying.

At the moment I'm still working on some additional features of GarminXT and other 3rd party software to make better use of what Garmin has to offer.

Mapking is still my favorite for use in China and Asia especially when it comes to adding favourite places or POI's. When in navigation mode adding a POI is done with two simple presses of the touch screen, and then the POI is saved and Mapking returns back to the navigational mode. Or another nice feature is being able to point to anywhere on the map when just in "map view" mode and this will allow the addition of a POI. These are not features so easily achieved in other GPS's.

will update later...

GarminXT WM for use in China with China City Navigator map

Theres been a lot of progress and developments since I last posted here
concerning GPS. I've still been using MapKing2007 since I'm such a fan
of the way this software works. Adding any kind of POI (favourite
place) including speed cameras is so easy and intuitive. All other GPS
applications I have used (Destinator, Route66, Garmin etc) really do
fail in this respect, especially when editing speed cameras, or working
with POI's.

That aside, though, I have been working on Garmin XT WM, over the past
several months. However there has been issues with Garmin on many
devices whether PNA running WinCE, PDA/Phones with Symbian OS and
Windows Mobile devices having a positional offset error of somewhere
around 500m when using China City Navigator maps (this is the name
given to Garmin's maps "country name" City Navigator then the version number).

Once one gets used to it, one can still use the software and China maps
ok, though it can be a nuisance in big cities, when the offset can be
off by 500m.

As I posted above, when the Garmin agent in China, "Unistrong" was
called (head Office in BJ) they said that only Garmin devices sold in
China, through them, can fix the positional offset error, as the
devices have a firmware upgrade. This supposedly meant that any Garmin
device bought from other markets abroad or Garmin software for 3rd
party devices would not show the correct GPS location on the China map,
other than buying a device from Unistrong.

I had not bought into such a story, for numerous reasons, and have been
persistent in trying to find a workaround to overcome the positional
offset error. The error had been corrected on Symbian devices, without
the need or any firmware upgrade, so this made Unistrong's story -just
that -a story.

Not being one phased by a challenge, I continued to work on possible solutions to the offset for GarminXT WM.

My perseverance has paid off, and I can say that I achieved what seemed
impossible in the past few days. (I have been collaborating with other
GPS users in other cities and abroad via a number of key websites,
trying to find methods to overcome the Garmin offset issue for WM
devices).

I can now say that after a lot of trial and error, I have been
successful in overcoming what turns out to be a software issue (not
firmware as Unistrong would have us believe) as of Saturday 20th May.
The positional offset error for Garmin XT Windows Mobile devices has
now been overcome and corrected.

The method is too long and tedious to go into here, as I have been
active on numerous GPS type websites with many posts concerning GPS
etc. My methods with software links etc are to be found elsewhere.

So to date, its Mapking2007 (in lead position) followed very closely by
GarminXT as the two top GPS applications for use in PR China for WM/PPC
devices.

The great thing about GarminXT is the ability to save tracks onto the
map of areas covered. Nice for any area that maybe not already mapped,
or for reviewing a travelled area. Garmin also uses a another application called Mapsource which allows POI's, tracks and so forth, as well as maps on a PC, using Activesync. Nice feature.

If anyone is interested in GarminXT for WM, etc please let me know... I can point you to my GPS related posts elsewhere.